President Paul Kagame: My opening remarks are as simple as just welcoming you all and any thoughts you have on your mind – we can discuss that. For me, it’s a very long journey we have travelled with all Rwandans, and to an extent with the rest of the world, that has been in one form or another connected with our country. For me at a personal level, it’s been a very tough but enjoyable journey based on the fact that this is the best thing one can do to be part of the many years of struggle to put things right for our country, for our people, for ourselves all together. So it’s, 31 years is not nearly long time but depending on what has been happening in those 31 years, one may decide to see it differently – You may see it as almost something that goes over 100 years but in other cases you can be realistic and say it’s actually 31, and 31 isn’t very long considering the world we live in. I think some people live in worse situations than maybe ours or have been there for even longer than those years we’ve been there. But anyway, I’m concerned more with my situation because that’s where I can make a contribution. For the rest of the world, those matters are beyond our control, some of us. On that note you are welcome to, you can offload anything you want on me. I’ll take it and we can have a good conversation.

Jackie Lumbasi: Happy Liberation Day Your Excellency! Thank you for giving us the opportunity to offload. There was a peace deal that was signed in the US not long ago, Your excellency, and we’re talking about a potential Washington Accord that is upcoming but I’ll take you back to when the peace deal was signed between Rwanda and DRC; immediately after that peace deal was signed, President Trump of the US said that he had secured the minerals deal for the US. Shortly afterwards, the former DRC President Joseph Kabila on social media dismissed the peace deal aspect and referred to what was signed as a trade agreement. Some people think that the Trump administration does not understand the situation in eastern DRC very well. What is your comment about that and what do you say to those who call Trump’s approach exploitative in comparison to the Biden administration? That’s the question, Your Excellency, my name is Jackie Lumbasi, I host the Real Talk on RTV.

President Paul Kagame: Good. Well, I would start by asking simple questions. Before the deal brokered by the United States in the Trump administration, whatever name you may want to give it, what did other administrations whether in United States or Europe or anywhere else offer? What is it? I mean, we could be talking about something, let’s talk about it before we come to the Trump administration and the deal brokered. You are a journalist, you follow different events and news and so on – you put things in their perspective, in history and so on and so forth, make a reference but even if you do not make it to me now but in your mind, try to remember what other deals that had been brokered by anybody that was even suitable to deal with the problem of DRC that maybe failed because of this or that and you may put the blame on anybody you wish to. So, my question is: where is that?

Therefore, if there isn’t, maybe we can even go into more details later: Trump administration came. First of all I thank them that they even paid attention to the problem at all. He could have ignored that problem like many have and just focused on what is happening in the Middle East, in Ukraine, Russia, Iran. Those in people’s minds are more important than having to deal with this African problem. It shouldn’t matter to anybody as we have seen it in the past, but they took time.

Now, I will try to summarize what my reading of that deal is and how it came about. Once they decided they are going to deal with the matter, there are really three pillars it is built on: One is economic, if you will, the other is security, the other is political. And I think these three are so closely related that you can’t just deal with one ignoring the other, because the three are part of the problem. In fact the main parts of the problem.

Now, people tend to concentrate more on the economic part for a reason. I think some of the players in the region or concerned with the problem, they had in their mind to leverage these resources because they think the resources are very attractive. So, therefore it’s like they are throwing a bait and saying: “I’ll give you this, you will control this, which everybody in the world needs, so I’ll give it to you”. But those who threw the bait to those who would help in the problem, were really not looking for a durable solution to their problems or to the problems that affect us in the region – they just wanted to have an advantage over adversaries and give a sweetener to people and say : “we’ll give you these, please help us deal with M23 and AFC/M23 or Rwanda, as it is perceived as our enemies”.  And then people will just be attracted to that, take it and address the problem the way the government of [DR] Congo saw it.

But the Trump administration kept looking at a combination of these three matters that need to be addressed: the political, the security and the economic, while in some other people’s minds it was just economic. You want a deal, you want money, you want minerals – please take it and save us from these troublemakers even if it doesn’t address the problem depending on how they see it. I’m sure that is what is still affecting and maybe will affect the implementation because what people had in mind is not necessarily 100% what they’re getting. But in addressing any problem like this one, it is give and take. You don’t get 100% what you want because there are many parties concerned with the problem. Each one want maybe gets a piece of what they wanted, another gets a piece of what they wanted, and together stability comes out of it.

So for me, I think there is a chance that we may get somewhere with that and why I asked the previous question, the other question about the previous handling, how different administrations handled this matter. It was like, actually, there was less caring for how to deal with this matter than we have now because for them it would just be the “M23”, “sanctions” and “Rwanda”, that’s it. I don’t think they have even learnt from history.  In fact, it is the same people also who failed in those years, they say: “But what do you think about this Trump thing?” They don’t even hide the fact that they are disappointed because they are not at the center of it. It’s like what do we have? For us, what do have in it? I tell them, “That’s none of my business. You were here all these years doing nothing except doing the wrong thing.” I asked some of them, “When you went all out and were sanctioning Rwanda, sanctioning M23, praising the other side and then being vague about the FDLR – what did you really think you were doing that would address the problem? So, why would you be asking me any anything? You should have asked me that time. You did, I explained to you, you didn’t listen to me, you decided to do things the way you wanted.” And in fact, I also don’t stop reminding them that actually they are part of the problem. The main part of the problem of this Congo situation is external in actual fact.

Look at the UN presence in Congo. How many years has it been there now? I keep asking people, “You sat long ago and decided to create this mission, you did. But it’s a couple of decades – it’s been there, but you never take stock of what you achieved, what you are doing there, but you keep running with the machine. It keeps it going.”

Second, coupled with that, you have heard of something called “Group of Experts” who tell the stories of what’s happening on the ground, what’s supposed to guide some of the actions and so on and so forth. The expertise they provide, the reports they write do not have anything to do with the situation itself. These reports were written long ago when they were being given the mission. So they just come to make sure that everything conforms to that as of origin. That’s why you will always find it’s all others guilty in this situation of different things, except the actual perpetrators. You will never find that they write anything comprehensively about FDLR. You’ll never find that they write anything comprehensively about how government institutions are connected with the FDLR in spreading hate, and genocide ideology – things that are being done in broad daylight for everybody to see. So, you wonder how experts cannot see that. But all the reports, 75%, it’s blame on AFC/ M23 and Rwanda. And they are always tied because they say “Rwanda-backed M23”. You will tell me in your research if you ever saw anywhere: “DRC-backed FDLR”, you will never.

The narrative is already written. They just come here to make sure things are adjusted to suit what they want. They talk about minerals as the center of the whole problem. By the way, they should also blame themselves because if you highlight minerals and then later on you blame somebody for also saying “Yes, we have a deal in minerals, but around that we want to solve the problem”, because they are the ones who highlighted the minerals in the first place, so how did they blame the Trump administration for saying they got a big deal on the minerals? But you made the minerals the issue, you the people who are blaming everybody, including blaming the Trump administration.  But the way they use that it was like Rwanda is just in Congo supporting M23 or even the existence of M23 is about minerals, according to them. They keep playing, even overplaying this narrative, and in the end, it works to the detriment of the solution to the problem. It’s like having arsonists being the judge and the prosecutor of people for burning down the house. The very ones who burned down the house are the ones in the seat to judge, to prosecute and everything. Some people oversimplify this matter and take it just to the surface. It’s about blaming AFC/M23, Rwanda, Former President of DRC, you mentioned.

By the way, you should never forget things conveniently. Do you know how the current President came to be President? He was just called to the office and this man thought he was making a good deal and they handed him power. Do you also know that actually there were witnesses – Heads of the State – did you know that? One of them being the former President of Kenya, Uhuru Kenyatta, the other one being the President of Egypt Sissi, the other one being President Ramaphosa of South Africa. You ask to go and visit them and ask them this question. I wish they could actually come forward and say “Wait a minute, by the way we know this story”.

The other thing is, you also know that Rwanda being blamed for AFC/M23, eastern Congo, and so on and so forth, fine, you can blame us for doing whatever we could to make sure FDLR doesn’t cause Rwanda problems and whoever was supporting that. But you cannot blame us for the start of this conflict because everybody knows where this conflict started from, and by who and it is nothing to do with Rwanda. These M23 – I have said it before – came from Uganda they did not come from here.  Why was it not made Uganda’s problem? Are these things I’m talking about new to you? You don’t know them? But the story goes out there, it’s everyday Rwanda and M23, but you should also tell people how this became Rwanda’s problem. Our problem is simple, twofold: FDLR, it has been a problem in the past, it’s a problem now and it will a problem in future if it continuously exists threatening Rwanda. As again said before, we don’t need anybody’s permission to protect our country. It doesn’t matter.

The other one is this Congo uprooting its own people from their ancestral homes and from wherever and Rwanda has nothing to do with how Kinyarwanda speaking people went to Congo – nothing. We cannot be blamed for that. But they have been killing people in broad daylight, and they have been moving them from their homes and making them refugees here, you know how many thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people originating from there who are refugees here.  So, the fact that we are hosting these people, the fact that we are saying – “we cannot accept FDLR” – is it a problem that Rwanda should be blamed for? Is it a complicated problem that groups of experts cannot see?

I have given you a very wide explanation to the very simple question you asked. Whatever solution that does not address these important matters to be addressed will just keep the problems between Rwanda, DRC, the whole region and wherever else going forever. But the matter is simple: if you do not play games, if you don’t allow genocide ideology to take over the region, then things can be addressed.

So, for me, I’m thankful to President Trump’s decision. By the way, even if it doesn’t work, I don’t think they should be the ones to be blamed, because in the end they’re not the ones to implement what we have agreed. They just brought people together concerned with the problem and they’ve introduced a new way of approaching this problem which has not been forthcoming from others and so here it’s our job, it’s our task for us in the region to implement that – DRC or Rwanda – to implement their part of the bargain in the agreement. But of course, it helps if the United States administration remains close by to follow up and say to people: “You said you would do this, what happened?” They have some leverage over the matter.

Laith Mushtaq (Al Jazeera): Thank you Mr. President for having us. I have a question with two parts. The first part is the deal between Rwanda and DRC about joint security measures and removing FDLR. What are the promises you have received to achieve this? And then the second part is what steps will Rwanda take if the FDLR is not removed?

President Paul Kagame: Let me add something before I come to your question. By the way, the deal we reached in Washington, D.C. does not stand in isolation. That one was mainly between Rwanda and DRC. Equally important, there is another deal ongoing that concerns the internal groups of Congo – AFC/M23 and the government, and I don’t know who else they will involve – that is being discussed and brokered in and by Qatar. You remember the story when I met with President Tshisekedi in Qatar, in Doha? It originates from there. These are two sides of the same coin. The reason was to avoid the confusion that had been created over years which nobody was addressing. Congo was always trying to make this problem only a problem between Rwanda and DRC. But there is a bigger component that is DRC’s problem, not anything to do with Rwanda.

In fact, that Qatar effort, we look at it broadly between AFC/M23 and DRC in my view – and maybe by extension- because that is the political side now. I said three things: political, economic and security. The political is actually mainly internal so that it doesn’t continue to produce these problems where you deny people their citizenship or you hand over power to somebody and runs with it and later on – the last time they had so-called “elections” – but no elections really happened. It was just a continuation of the thing that was handed to the man and he just keeps running with it. But that’s another story.

I’m reminded by what you just brought up. As I said, we reached an agreement in Washington, D.C., but it is not up to Washington to implement it. It’s those who reached the agreement there to actually be the ones to implement what they agreed. And we have also seen in the whole history of this matter that people really don’t necessarily do things according to what they agreed they are going to do. That’s a lesson we have learned over many years. If FDLR is not dealt with and we have set out the way to deal with it in the agreement, then that means the FDLR continues to be there and the problem continues to be there and Rwanda will always do what it has to do when FDLR is along our border.

There is no magic wand here to be used by anybody. It’s you who have just to do what is right to do to deal with the matter. For us we have this obligation and we have laid our case and out of that we have agreed to do a number of things to deal with and do it together with others and we’ll do that. We’ll never find Rwanda at fault with implementing what we have agreed to do. You’ll never. But if the side we are working with plays tricks and takes us back to the problem, then we deal with the problem like we have been dealing with it. There are no two ways about it. But we are serious, we are honest, and we look forward to implementing what we agreed to do and to eliminate the problem.

Ufitinema Remy Maurice: Murakoze Nyakubahwa Perezida wa Repubulika, nitwa Ufitinema Remy Maurice ndi umunyamakuru wa RBA. Mu kiganiro n’abanyamakuru cyo kuwa 09 Mutarama, mwaragize muti ‘iki kibazo cyakabaye cyarakemutse kera iyo abantu bakirebera mu mizi yacyo batagiye gucengacengana.’ Ni ku ruhe rwego mubona aya masezerano ya Washington areba ikibazo agihereye mu mizi? Ese muyafitiye icyizere kingana gute? Murakoze.

Thank you, Your Excellency the President. My name is Ufitinema Remy Maurice, and I am a journalist working with RBA. During a press conference on January 9th, you said: “This issue could have been resolved long ago if people had addressed its root causes instead of dodging around it.”
To what extent do you think the Washington agreement tackle the issue from its root causes? And how much confidence do you have in the agreement? Thank you.

Perezida Paul Kagame: Ngira ngo nabisobanuye n’ubwo nabivuze mu Cyongereza mbere. Amasezerano yo arahari, mu masezerano hari ibyo abayashinzwe bemera gukora buri umwe ku giti cye cyangwa se gukorana hamwe. Ntabwo rero iteka abantu bose bakoresha ukuri cyangwa bavugisha ukuri no mu byo bemeye ku mugaragaro ariko navuga ku ruhande rw’u Rwanda, twe tuzakora ibyo twemeye uko bishoboka ariko bimwe bihera ku byo abandi bakora na bo twemeranyije. Iyo badakoze ibyo twemeranyije, ubwo birumvikana ko bifite ingaruka ku byo natwe tugomba gukora kuko twemeye kubikora kandi tuzabikora ari uko n’abandi buzuza uruhande rwabo, kandi ibi nibidakora tuzakomeza dushakisha inzira iyo ari yo yose. Igihe inzira itaraboneka yo gukemura ibibazo uko bikwiriye kuba bikemuka, u Rwanda na rwo ruzakomeza gukora ibishoboka byose kugira ngo rurinde abanyarwanda, rurinde Igihugu aho kubura umutekano bitewe n’uko abandi twumvikanye batuzuza ibyabo bya ngombwa. Ibyo rero ni uguhora abantu bashakisha uburyo, nibyo tuzakora, nibyo twe tureba imbere yacu.

President Paul Kagame: I believe I explained this, even though I initially said it in English. The agreement exists, and within it, each party has made commitments; either to act individually or to cooperate.

However, people do not always act truthfully or uphold the commitments they make publicly. Speaking for Rwanda, we will do what we have committed to do, to the best of our ability. But some of our actions are contingent on what others, with whom we made mutual agreements, also do. When they do not fulfill their part, it naturally affects our own ability to proceed as agreed. We intend to follow through on our commitments, but only if the other parties also meet theirs.

If this agreement is not honored, we will continue to seek every possible path forward. Until we find a solution that addresses the issues properly, Rwanda will continue to do everything in its power to protect Rwandans and safeguard the country rather than face insecurity because others have failed to fulfill their responsibilities. So, the focus is on constantly looking for solutions, and that is what we will do. That is what lies ahead.

Lionel NDITABIRIYE: Thank you Mr President. My name is Lionel Nditabiriye, I work for The Panafrican Review. Since on the topic of Congo, in 2012 during Umushyikirano, you gave a speech in which you criticized powerful countries mainly western powers for scapegoating Rwanda, and imposing sanctions in an attempt to reshape our region today liking. You even mentioned that they consider us as sheep. So, you urged Rwandans to be self-reliant, you use the term which has deeper meaning I think ‘Kwigira’ and to ensure that they would never again be made to carry the blame for crimes committed by others. So, my question is: more than a decade later, how close has Rwanda come to achieving the kind of self-reliance you envisioned.

President Paul Kagame: For Rwanda I can account for everything you ask me to account for. What I can’t account for is what others have been doing because those 13 years ago and what I said, Rwanda has constantly been changing. But those powerful countries and how they see us or maybe see other Africans has really not changed. It is the same story and it is what I’ve just been talking about. They still don’t care. Not only they not care, they actually want to stop you caring for yourself. That is the biggest the problem.

But for Rwanda the progress we have made, and especially of taking care of ourselves, the story speaks for itself. Do you know that, by the way with Eastern Congo, just before the fall of Goma and Bukavu

and other parts, what had been assembled  by government and those they called their allies and so on and so forth – assembled in numbers of people, men and women, assembled in weaponry, assembled in terms of mobilizing even support of other countries politically – you will not believe it. But what happened, happened and you know it and you saw it, it was Rwanda saying: “it won’t happen here again”.

That just doesn’t come any how. You have to have made progress on many fronts to be able to stand for yourself, and respond to all the things that are brought your way to destroy you. So I think that story may speak for itself many years.

If we hadn’t been building the unity of purpose, the strength to preserve ourselves, and believe, this Rwanda can’t live on the whims of others. No! It happened and I have told you even last time, last year in April, that it happened once and it will never happen again. Once was too many times. For the second one, somebody else will pay for it. They will be the ones to go. They will be the ones to perish, not Rwanda again. I have repeated it. It’s not bragging. It’s an act of survival. We don’t owe our living to anyone. Never will it happen again.

Eugene Anangwe: Thank you, Mr. President. My name is Eugene Anangwe, I’m the CEO and founder of East Africa Media Group. We do a lot of mentorship and training for media, to just change the narrative about media in Rwanda and the region. I’ll start first of all by saying thank you for the work you did and all the gallant soldiers to give us a country. I would like to move us away a bit from the DRC conversation and bring it back to 31 years ago. Before the liberation struggle, there was your personal story, the convictions, the thing that made you feel like I need to rise up and fight for my country. And Mr. President, I want to invite you to download the untold – those moments that you remember today and when you look back you say: ”this was a worthwhile fight for my country”.  Maybe let’s start there and then we can continue later.

President Paul Kagame: That’s a bit complicated, but I’ll try. At the beginning when I was talking about this whole 31 years being a tough but enjoyable story, I meant the tough side was what was confronted and dealt with. Being of such a magnitude that for the half-hearted, they would just collapse under the weight of it the first day.

But fortunately, we had many many people who were up to the task and who were ready and able to give it all because it meant everything to them.  When something means everything to you, then you give everything to make sure it is in good hands.  But it was tough – that one, there is no question about it. There is no way of overemphasizing it.

The enjoyable part I’m talking about, even on the tough situation,  is understanding the story itself, where you are coming from and where you are going and then finding yourself in the middle of it. Being one among many to be looked up to – to deal with such a tough journey – it gives a sense of pride, inspiration, something that is worth being associated with. But also, you approach it with a sense that it doesn’t end there. The story doesn’t end there. What comes out in the end must reflect that difference between what you really fought against and what you are creating. They have to be different. You can’t fight against a bad thing and end up with a bad thing yourself because it would be such a waste of life, even in personal terms.

So for me, the personal, there are things I can explain and other things I can’t explain. I cannot explain why in a situation like this you can explain how – even if you explain the magnitude of it – those many people I talked about who are ready to give all they had and did, many of them are no longer with us. But their names and their stories live on. Their bravery lives with us. At the same time, I cannot explain why in that whole journey one is no longer with us and the others are still with us. Yet all of us were exposed to the same danger. I don’t think those who are still lucky like me to still be alive, I cannot account for why I am still alive. I could have easily gone the way of the others who didn’t make it.

Therefore, there is no one who can get praised for still being alive because it has nothing to do with you. It just happened, not because you are smarter, more brave,  no. So, that one I can’t account for, I can’t explain. I can only explain what I do when I am there. And in fact, some of those who sacrificed are no longer alive, we remember them, we honour them, we respect them for what we know they were associated with or they did when they were still there. It is the same thing even when they are gone. Yes, these are the people we know because of those things they did. So, for my personal stories, you can take it the way you want. Some of the things I am not responsible for, but others I am responsible for. Maybe those are the ones you can judge the way you want. So, that’s my personal story.

Jesse Maxella: Thank you my name is Jesse Maxella, I host a morning edition on 94.3 Royal FM. You have mentioned 31 years ago it’s been tough but there’s been moments that you’ve enjoyed. I just want to look at the story that you have, some of which we have an understanding. You said sometime back Rwanda does not follow rules, and you mentioned that Rwanda follows choices. I want to know in what ways did your experience as a refugee shape or push you to learn about the world and the experiences of other countries? At the same time, how did this shape your ideology orientation or ideological orientation and the choices that you have made for the country. Thank you.

President Paul Kagame: For the rules – especially the rules of others – we don’t follow. We follow our own choices and our own rules, and then if we were to follow other people’s rules and choices, it’s because we have a good understanding between us with them. But the world we live in has a tendency for people to dictate to you how you should follow the rules and especially when they are their own. I mean, somebody else’s rules to be applied to me, I think we have to make it difficult for them, for us to follow their rules.

Now to your question: First and foremost, because Rwanda, we can say us Rwandans, we are people like any other. I don’t think you would tell me these people, this country, or whichever part of the world, are better than you. I wouldn’t understand it. I don’t understand what you mean. People are people. Human beings are human beings and individuals can be better than others if you are considering specific things, whether they have a talent or a skill the others don’t have. But when you’re comparing human beings – even that one who may lack this or that you are talking about, may actually be endowed with other things that maybe those ones you referred to don’t have. So, it’s a very fluid sort of argument. But for our struggle – for this country and as a people and what we’ve gone through – rules and choices really build on values also. You have to be guided by a certain set of values.

For Rwanda, there are values we have espoused for a long time and talked about, things that bring us together as a people so that one doesn’t feel they are left out because of their background or because of whatever. The other is to aim high. To say, why, if we are human beings like I was saying, we should be considered equal with others. Why should we be limited in terms of what we aim to achieve in life that is better than what we have yet we have possibilities of raising ourselves to those levels. So, we don’t limit ourselves, your thinking may actually determine that. It determines whether you rise high or whether you sink. Our thinking is what raises us to the levels we can go to. I’ve already talked about the other where we need to bring in everybody, the unity of our country matters, especially we know what we got from the lack of that.

So, one is to consider ourselves and determine what we want that is best for us, but we also know there’s no such a country or people that form an island and they’re detached from the rest of the world. You always want to be part of the rest of the world even with what you aim for and want to achieve for yourself. You always want to be connected, because also that’s where you draw from, certain things that make you better. But you have to be anchored somewhere. We are anchored here in ourselves, in our country, in our people, in our politics. You have to really make sure that you get things right where you are anchored before you venture outside to embrace others or to have them embrace you.

So that is what guides us. And when we are talking about ourselves and what we’ve gone through and what we want to achieve or what we have achieved, we always do it in the context of thinking about others, other than Rwandans, because we are never an island.

But you cannot project yourself outside with others from a very low base or a weakness you have refused or failed to overcome. It is therefore this formation of where we are anchored that allows us to think of which choices do we make that are going to make us better people going forward every time or the rules that must apply, to us but originating from us, to bring that discipline that will allow us to achieve what we want to achieve. This is a constant conversation. It’s not a one-off thing that you decided one day somewhere and that’s it and you keep going. No, it changes, it’s dynamic and we keep even reexamining ourselves and our rules and our choices, whether they were right in the first place or whether they apply in that moment or they are likely to apply in time ahead so that if you don’t find them fitting then you change them. You adjust them to suit the time and the needs of that moment.

Sometimes people find it complex, maybe don’t even bother to think about it but in terms of leadership and governance of our country, we need to hold them dear to ourselves so that we don’t lose the grip of things as we should have. We need to have a firm grip on some of these important principles and values.

Jesse Maxella: Thank you. I just want to do a follow up question on that. It’s been mentioned that your leadership is unapologetically very strategic, but I want to ask looking ahead 10 years maybe from today, what is that one more bold move that Rwanda can possibly make to cement its place as a truly global player?

President Paul Kagame: Well, all elements are there. There is nothing new we are going to invent but rather derive those things you’re going to do from what we are doing already because with creating a vision, you must have a vision. A vision takes you up to a point and that is the essence of therefore giving value to time and should you realise that with more time ahead, the world we operate in or the needs of the people are going to be different, then you adjust according to that but you are adjusting from a certain position where you have been already or where you are. The strategic thinking or thing you need to do, if it comes you get to think about it or to know it when it is time for it to think about it or to apply.

Otherwise, you want continuity. You want something to keep growing. That’s what growing means. you want to be better today than you were yesterday and you are thinking of being better tomorrow than you are today. And along that, looking at the cross section of many things happening, that thing that you need to implement pops up at that time.

But most important thing for me associated with your question: you need that continuity, you need that sustainability to keep moving forward and never do well today, get drunk with that, and then you find a few months and years ahead you really collapse. Don’t get drunk with success or with achievement but rather that should energize you and inspire you to keep going. So, for me, my worry is always that of continuity: how do I continue the momentum? How do I keep going? If at some moments you can move faster, then you do. But don’t go below the speed or the quality at which you have achieved a number of things going forward.

Rigoga Ruth: Murakoze Nyakubahwa Perezida wa Repubulika, nitwa Rigoga Ruth, ndi umunyamakuru wa RBA, by’umwihariko mu biganiro by’imikino. Nyakubahwa Perezida wa Repubulika, mwasobanura mute siporo y’u Rwanda mu myaka 31 ishize? Discipline, kwitanga, vision, indangagaciro byafashije Igihugu kwiyubaka, musobanura gute impamvu iyo bigeze kuri siporo biba ikibazo? Murakoze.

Thank you, Your Excellency the President. My name is Rigoga Ruth, and I am a journalist working with RBA, specifically covering sports. Your Excellency, how would you describe the evolution of Rwandan sports over the past 31 years? Discipline, sacrifice, vision, and other values have helped the country rebuild. Why, in your view, does it seem that when it comes to sports, it becomes a problem? Thank you.

Perezida Paul Kagame: Sinzi niba ari siporo gusa ariko, siporo yo, ubundi siporo warebamo ibintu nka bibiri cyangwa bitatu. Icya mbere, agaciro ubiha ni akahe? Agaciro uha siporo ni akahe? Icya kabiri, witegura ute? Witeguye ute kugira ngo ako gaciro kabeho cyangwa se gakure kazamuke? Ubwo mu rurimi rw’Icyongereza ni organisation, how do you organize to do that? Icya gatatu, ni talent ubona mu bantu, abantu kuba badafite talent, you can’t blame them. If I have no talent for football, really don’t blame me. It’s not my fault. Icya mbere ni agaciro ubiha, icya kabiri, ubigenza ute? Ushyira hamwe ibikorwa n’ibitekerezo gute kugira ngo bizamure ka gaciro, noneho abantu bafite ubushobozi, ubumenyi, byo bavukanye bibaha,…

Ibyo rero, nko mu gihugu, nkatwe, cyangwa tugashyiraho Minisiteri ya siporo, cyangwa za siporo zitandukanye, federations zazo zishyirahamwe, iyo ni organisation, iyo itameze neza, ni ikibazo.

Ikindi: umuco. Burya umuco mujye muwuha agaciro, umuco ufite agaciro. Umuco mvuga ni iki? Hari n’abantu baba bazi umupira, cyangwa hari na organisation ihari, cyangwa abayobora na bo barahari, ariko umuco bafite, nahoraga mbivuga najyaga mbivuga ku mugaragaro, ugasanga abakinnyi b’umupira aho kugira ngo bakine rwose bashyireho umwete n’umutima ubishaka n’iki, bagatangira gutekereza utuntu bashyira mu izamu kugira ngo…, Iyo wagiye aho ibintu byose uba wabikubye na zeru. N’uriya munyezamu ushatse ntiwamushyiramo, kandi niba wizeye twa tuntu, wadushyizemo ukamwihorera, urashyiramo uw’iki?

Ibyo rero bigera no ku bantu, sinzi ni kamere y’abantu, ntabwo mfite ukuntu nabisobanura bihagije, impamvu umuntu yemera iki, undi atemera iki, rimwe na rimwe no kwemera ikintu ku buryo busanzwe umuntu akwiye kuba abona ko nta kintu kirimo, ariko umuntu akabyemera, cyangwa se waba utemeye ibyo ugatekereza ukuntu, ariko uzasifura ni nde? Turebe uko tumugenza kugira ngo ejo azatubere, iyo wagiye muri ibyo na talent wari ufite n’ibindi byose…,

Ariko ubundi umukino, siporo kugira ngo itere imbere, ukora biriya bindi nakubwiye, ariko noneho ukanavuga uti okay, erega siporo habamo gutsinda, habamo gutsindwa, kandi muri uko gutsinda no gutsindwa, harimo gutera imbere. Ni ukuvuga ngo wagerageje wakoze ibyo washoboraga gukora, ahubwo niba wanatsinzwe wavanyemo isomo rivuga ngo ariko urabizi icyo nazize ni iki nakibonye. Umukinnyi nakinishije aho atagombaga gukina cyangwa iyo nzanamo undi mu gihe, bikagira bitya, ibyovngibyo akaba aribyo… Rero iyo watsinzwe uvanamo isomo, ntabwo ugenda ngo wiyahure kubera ko watsinzwe, imikino yose ntawe udatsindwa ngira ngo murabibona, n’abazwi ku isi b’ibihangange muri za siporo zitandukanye haba igihe ibintu byabagendekeye nabi, nkabo nk’abantu ariko noneho n’itimu (team).

Ariko ni ibintu bihoraho rero, bihoraho noneho on average, umuntu akavuga ati ‘ariko urareba team iratera imbere cyangwa kanaka aratera imbere na we.’ Bituruka muri team cyangwa umuntu utagiye mu bintu ngo ujye mu bapfumu, ujye mu gushaka uko watuga, watugira abantu cyangwa hari ibindi bibi ntakirirwa mvuga, kugira ngo ajye mu kibuga yacitse intege adashobora gukina, adashobora no guhagarara, wamuvangiye imiti, iyo byagiyemo aho.

So, ndibwira rero ko aho tugeze hari abantu benshi, hari abanyarwanda bafite muri bo talent, kumenya muri siporo zitandukanye, twashakisha rero ahantu hose. Ariko byose bishingira kuba ubanza kwemera uwo uri we, ntabwo gushakisha gusa ibyo ubona hanze utihereyeho ngo ubanze uvuge uti ‘ariko nabigeraho nte nkanjye kuko mfite uko nteye n’undi afite uko ateye bitandukanye ariko nk’Igihugu dufite abantu, team yacu iteye itya, twayishakira iki, twayigira gute?’ So, ndibwira ko bishoboka ariko ntabwo ari ibintu byizana gusa ngo bibe abantu babe batatekereje uko babigenza.

President Paul Kagame: I don’t know if it’s only sports, but let’s focus on that. Sports can generally be looked at through two or three lenses. First, what value do you assign to it? How important is sports to you? Second, how do you prepare? How do you organise yourself so that this value can grow and be realised? That’s what in English we call “organisation”: how do you organize to make that happen? Third, there is talent and natural ability in people. Now, if someone doesn’t have talent, you can’t blame them. If I don’t have talent for football, don’t hold that against me. It’s not my fault. So again: first is the value you give to sport. Second is how you organize and prepare to build that value, then comes the talent, those with the ability, skill, or passion, which is something people are often born with.

In a country like ours, even when we create a Ministry of Sports or federations to manage different sports disciplines, if that organisation is not functioning properly, it becomes a problem.

Then there is culture. You must value it. What do I mean by culture? There are people who know football, organization that exists, and leadership in place. But then you find the kind of culture where, as I have said openly before, instead of putting in hard work and passion, players start engaging in superstitions and rituals to try and score goals. Once that creeps in, you have multiplied everything else by zero. Even if you had a great goalkeeper, those habits will ruin your game. And if you put your faith in that nonsense, leave the goalkeeper alone, what’s the point of putting him anyway?

This also ties back to people, maybe even human nature. I can’t explain it fully why someone believes in one thing while another doesn’t. Sometimes people believe in things they should know better than to believe in, or refuse to accept what is plain. But in the end, who referees the game? If you get caught up in manipulations, even the talent you had, it all collapses.

But in principle, for sports to develop, you do what I just mentioned: give it value, organize around it, harness talent, but you must also remember that in sports there is winning and losing. And both are part of growth. When you lose, it doesn’t mean you failed. You may have done your best, and if you lost, you learn from it: “Ah, I now see why we lost. I played this guy in the wrong position, or I brought in a sub too late.” That’s the lesson. You don’t go and throw yourself off a cliff because you lost. Losses happen, even the biggest sports legends in the world have bad days, individually or as a team.

What matters is consistency. Over time, on average, you can say: “Look, this team is making progress,” or “this player is growing.” That kind of progress comes when you stay away from superstitions, sorcery, harming others spiritually or physically, or trying to psych out a player so they collapse before they even get on the field. When this comes in, it ruins everything.

But I believe we have many Rwandans with talent across various sports disciplines. We should search for and nurture it everywhere. Still, all of this begins with self-awareness. You can’t only chase external success. You have to start with yourself: “How can I personally reach that level, given who I am?”
Each person is different, but as a country, we look at our people and our team and ask: “What do we need? What can we do to build it?” So yes, it is possible. But success in sports doesn’t come by accident. It must be well thought out and deliberately pursued.

James Munyaneza: Mr. President, my name is James Munyaneza, I work with The New Times, and I want to pivot to international matters. Recent developments, different dynamics globally suggest a shifting, or rather a changing world order. Do you see a situation where we are potentially moving into a more multipolar world, and what does this mean for Africa, of course, and for Rwanda? Do you think we are ready?

President Paul Kagame: Whether we are ready or not, we should be ready because even if I tell you, “Yes, I’m seeing it coming”, it may not come. But you should always be prepared for what if it were to come actually. Suppose I even made a mistake in my analysis and assumed it’s not coming, why should I not be actually prepared if I found I made a mistake and actually it came? But what you are saying, as I see, like many other people see it, the world order will always change. It won’t remain the same forever. There will be one form of world order today, there will be another tomorrow, or another maybe ten years after or twenty.  It depends on many things, as we see. We should be educated by what we see.

But it also originates from, maybe it’s important when you say Rwanda or Africa,  it originates from the politics, global politics or geopolitics, and how it values things. People will tell you “Interest”. How do you value your interest? If you are powerful and you have interest, that’s fine. But how do you achieve interest? Do you achieve your interest by ignoring other people’s interest? Or you value your interest and in achieving them, you are also at the back of your mind saying you are not alone in this world.

Maybe as you pursue your interest, it is important to be thinking about others’ interest so that maybe you find common ground, you are together, you even form alliance, or you do this. But it comes out from saying: “Yes, my interest, but your interest also”.

And very often we are going to find that people or even countries make mistakes, especially the powerful ones. Sometimes they think they’ll achieve their interest anyway, whether they consider yours or not. And sometimes somebody will come and say, “No for me, I’m powerful enough, I will pursue my interest and that’s it. So, I’ll come to you, I say I want this, and if you don’t do it, I blow you away”. Well, that may work sometimes. Other times it has certain limitations. It works only for a certain time because there are other forces, there are other powerful groups.

But even the least powerful, like us. For us, we don’t even come on the list of powerful. But there are certain things, even with my insignificance, you can’t force me to do. I said it earlier. There is no power that would come and say, “You know what, you must accept FDLR”. Then I’ll tell you, “Look for what you are going to do to me because you are sure I’m not going to accept them”.

The multiplicity of this happening here and there, of these differences and how to sort them out, the agreements, the disagreements, keep forming the world order of the day, of the time globally. How do these merging powers behave? How do they behave towards others? Because you have also seen there are times when they move together, reach a point, and then they even have a divide among themselves.

It’s like maybe they discover one of their allies either is taking them for granted or is cheating them or is minding only their own business and not yours, so it creates a difference. But that also creates other formations of alliances. Somebody may have to say, “If I can’t get what I wanted here because somebody doesn’t care about me, how about teaming with the other one and actually together put together our strength and also get what we want.” So, it’s very fluid, it’s very dynamic, and it works only for a certain period as we have seen. But you can see it coming, you can smell it. People can ignore it because again, once people are powerful, they really start becoming insensitive to certain things. They think they are the only ones who matter, and the rest don’t.  And that is when things start happening even before they realise.

Now, but the most important part of your question: Rwanda and Africa. It’s going to be difficult for me to explain because Africa, where we are, is not where we should be. And even more challenging to understand is that we have everything to be where we want to be, except ourselves. Somehow, we are not there to deliver on what we already have in our hands, to be transformed into what we should be. We are absent somehow. I can’t explain that. I have no medicine for it.

On a smaller scale, therefore, talking about Rwanda, I think you’ll never find us not trying. At least we are trying within our limited means and resources to be where we want to be.  We are on a journey to being what we should be, within that limited space.

And if we can work with other African countries and we try, we can move the needle towards that objective. But it wants more people doing what they might be wanting to do, what we need to do. The more we are together doing what we should do, the more likely we will get there or get there faster. That’s how it is.

James Munyaneza: Just on a lighter note. The other day I was speaking to a young person and he said something interesting. He said, we now have a Minister of Enjoyment. I was like, “What do you mean by Minister of Enjoyment?” And the reference was about these holidays. What was the thinking for these additional two days, and is this something to be expected going forward?

President Paul Kagame: I think you needed it. I see people stressed. So, maybe you needed it. But at the same time, this person who you had the conversation with, on a personal level again,  if you asked him, and let me assume he was complaining, saying “Why did they give us these two days?”. If you probed deeper, and say, “By the way, what was your plan? What did you really want to do in these two days that you are now not going to achieve because you have two days?”.

First of all, you may discover, the guy was going to anyway spend the whole morning sleeping. And maybe the afternoon, even if he goes to office, he just goes there and is surfing the internet. So declaring it officially a rest day may serve his interests better.

But anyway, it stemmed from, you remember 1st of July is actually when we got independence – from decolonization. And then, 4th of July is Liberation Day. While we cannot keep having a celebration for this and a celebration for that and blocking those days in succession like that, you are also aware there are times when 1st of July or 4th of July may fall on a Saturday or a Sunday. If 4th of July fell on Saturday, that is really not a holiday for the 4th of July. It is a Saturday anyway, you had it. So sometimes if it falls on a Saturday or a Sunday, we give people a Monday. You see the point? So, if you look at the 1st and the 4th, one of them was going to run into the weekend, is it?

We give you a Tuesday (1^st), then you break and come to work on Wednesday. Then you come on Thursday. Then Friday is a holiday, do you want to keep dancing like that? Or we may as well put them all together and just say, “Ok, you have them. Do with yourself whatever you want. At least come fresh on Monday and start business.” That was really the thinking.

James Munyaneza: Thank you, Mr. President. And if you may allow, there was that speculation, of course, social media speculation, hateful speculation, I would call it, surrounding your personal health. I don’t know if you would want to say something about that. Thank you, Mr. President.

President Paul Kagame: Now, how do people account for their personal health? Ordinarily, how would all of you, me and others, how would people want to account for people’s personal health? Is there an exception, by the way, in this world? Is there anybody? First of all, there is nobody who lives forever. Secondly, even for anybody’s life, whether short or long, you have to manage all these issues as human beings.

Well, but when it comes to politics, maybe this is not taken into account. In fact, some of my personal health problems might originate from managing you people. People got COVID, they get the flu, they get the cold – People, even their own hearts, as they’re moving, the heart stops and somebody falls down. Isn’t this human? What is the problem? What would people want me to account for? That I’m not human?

Even if those, you called them the “hateful people”, you know, the very person might be talking about somebody or talking about me and wishing me everything bad and say, “He has actually died”.  And then, by the time you see me, he’s actually already dead himself, and which has nothing to do with me. It’s just because this guy is a human being.

But this is the kind of politics I hope we got liberated from ourselves as a nation. It’s even beyond stupidity. It just doesn’t make sense. You can rejoice even when they are carrying somebody in a coffin going for burial. You can have that moment of rejoice and say “turamukize” and so on. And by the time he gets into his car, one kilometre, he has followed the other one. So, I don’t understand the logic, the politics, or anything at all. So, anyway, at least you raised the question. Rest assured, it is me sitting here with you. It’s not anybody else.

Bagirishya Jean de Dieu: Murakoze Nyakubahwa Perezida wa Repubulika, nitwa Bagirishya Jean de Dieu, mpagarariye B&B Kigali FM. Nyakubahwa Perezida wa Repubulika turizihiza ku nshuro ya 31 umunsi wo Kwibohora. Iyo myaka ntabwo iri kure y’iyo mwari mufite muyobora urugamba rwo kwibohora. Ndetse ye, abenshi mu bo mwari muyoboye amateka atwereka ko bari munsi y’iyo myaka. Imibare dufite yo mu kigo cy’Igihugu cy’ibarurishamibare itwereka ko muri iyo myaka 20, 30 ni ho ubu dufite abanyarwanda benshi, tukaba turi mu gihe cy’ikoranabuhanga, iterambere, ibirangaza ni byinshi, yewe ubu dufite amahoro, dufite umutekano; hari n’uwarangara akabisinda nk’uko mwigeze kuvuga. Dusubiye inyuma, Nyakubahwa Perezida wa Repubulika, indangagaciro n’amahame mwari mufite icyo gihe yo kwitanga ku kugeza ku gitambo kirenze ibindi cy’ubuzima bwanyu ku rugamba; uyu munsi mu bubazo u Rwanda twaba dufite mubona abari muri iyo myaka biteguye? Impanuro mwabaha ni izihe muri iki gihe aho twatangiye no hatari na kure ko urubyiruko ubundi imbaraga za buri gihugu zanaba ikibazo ku gihugu ahubwo ingufu zabo bakaba banazikoresha basenya na bike ibihugu byabo bari bamaze kugeraho? Impanuro muha urubyiruko rwacu ni izihe Nyakubahwa Perezida wa Repubulika? Murakoze.

Thank you, Your Excellency.. My name is Bagirishya Jean de Dieu, representing B&B Kigali FM.

We are marking the 31st anniversary of Liberation. That number is not far from the age you were when you were leading the liberation struggle. In fact, history tells us that many of those you led at the time were even younger than that. According to data from the National Institute of Statistics, most Rwandans today fall within that 20–30-year age range. We now live in an era of technology and development, but also of many distractions. We enjoy peace and security, so much so that some can afford to be complacent, even intoxicated by it, as you once noted. Looking back, Your Excellency, at the values and principles of sacrifice that guided you and your peers, willing even to sacrifice your lives, do you believe today’s youth are prepared for such a responsibility if Rwanda ever faced a serious challenge again? And what advice do you have for this generation, especially at a time when, in some countries, youth, typically a nation’s strength, can actually become a source of destruction, undoing what their countries have built? Thank you.

Perezida Paul Kagame: Impanuro naha urubyiruko naziha n’abakuru, twebwe n’abandi babyara urwo rubyiruko. Nta kintu cyizana ngo abantu bakibone, bagitunge bakigereho batagikoreye. No muri ibyo bihe byacu by’urugamba, aba bari bakiri na batoya no kuturusha barugiyemo bakagira bate, barahari koko kandi ni bo batumye bigera aha. Ariko buriya hari n’abandi baruhunze, n’icyo gihe hari ababihungaga bakabigendera kure bababwira, wababwira bagashaka impamvu; na bo bari bahari.

Rero, byose biva mu burere. Uburere busanzwe bwa’ababyeyi, bw’Igihugu, biva no mu burere bwa politike; ukabitoza abantu, ukabihozaho, ukabigisha,… Na none mu icumi havamo wenda batanu, waba uri umunyamahirwe hakavamo batandatu bazima bakumvise bagiye gukora ibyo kandi bakabikora. Haba hari ba bandi bane, batanu,… Ariko utanigishije, utagerageje, utashakishije waguma uri muri babiri, batatu. Ni ukuvuga ngo rero izo mbaraga zo kwigisha uburyo bwa politike, uburyo bw’uburezi busanzwe ni ibigomba guhoraho, bigomba guhoraho. N’ubu buri munsi tugomba guhozaho. Namwe uko muri aha mu mirimo yanyu mukora mujye mwibutsa, ntuvuge amakuru gusa, nahuye na Perezida,… nagize ntya, jya urangiza ushyiramo umurongo ukangurira abantu, ababisomye bazasoma wa murongo wenda hari uzarokoka kubera ako ngako. Ni ibintu rero tugomba kuzirikana bigahoraho mu mashuri, mu buzima busanzwe, muri politike yacu. Abayobozi aho bari hose bagakora ibyo bakwiye gukora bindi bidahuye n’ibyo, yabona umwanya agashyiramo wa murongo, akigisha abana; ibintu byo gufata ibiyobyabwenge, ibintu byo kunywa inzoga bakaziririmba, bakazogeza bigasa nk’aho ari…. Discipline yo irakenewe, ni ngombwa n’iyo yaba ishaririye ni ko imeze. Discipline irasharira, ituma abantu bigomwa ibyo bakunda cyangwa iki; ni nk’uko ushobora kujya kwa muganga bimwe twavugaga by’ubuzima bw’abantu, ukajya kwa muganga muganga akakubwira ati ‘maze urekera aho kunywa isukari turakubonamo, ufite uburwayi bw’isukari/diabete cyangwa iki,’ ariko kubera ko isukari iryoha cyangwa ikuryohera uyikunda, ukajya ugira utya ugatricha ugashyiramo akayiko kamwe, ugashyiramo akandi cyangwa ukayikomeza ukajya wihisha. Ariko ibyo n’ubwo ubikora utyo ubuzima bwawe bwo bueimo buragenda, ya sukari iragumya igutwara ku mpera y’ubuzima bwawe.

So, n’ibi rero by’abana dukangurira abana mureke kunywa ibiyobyabwenge, inzoga muzigabanye, umuntu ntakure yogeza inzoga, kunywa inzoga kuko abo zica turababona buri munsi; ubwo ariko icyo tubikuburiza ni ukugira ngo ubeho ubuzima bwiza, wiyubake ndetse wubake n’Igihugu muri bya bikorwa wavugaga. Ni ibintu rero bihoraho, ni akazi gahoraho ka buri munsi ntabwo gashobora kugabanuka.

President Paul Kagame: The advice I would give to the youth is the same I would give to the older generations, including ourselves, the parents of this youth.

Nothing comes to people without effort, nothing just falls into one’s lap without work. Even during our time, during the liberation struggle, there were young people, some even younger than us, who stepped forward and played their part. But there were also others who ran away from the struggle. At the time, there were people who avoided it, distanced themselves, and found excuses. They were there too.

So, it all comes down to education and upbringing. That includes the upbringing by parents, by the country, and also political education. It has to be taught, instilled, and constantly reinforced. Even if only 5 out of 10 take it to heart and act on it, that’s already a win. Maybe 6 will get it right. There will always be 4 or 5 who don’t, but if you never try, never teach, never guide, you might be stuck with only 2 or 3.

This is why political education and the general education system must always be active and sustained. We have to keep pushing, every single day.

Even in your own roles, those of you working in the media, don’t just report the news or say “I met the President…” Finish with a message that inspires. Someone reading that final line might actually be saved by it.

These messages should be part of our schools, our daily lives, and our politics. Leaders at all levels should do the right thing, and even when their role doesn’t seem directly related, they should still take time to share that message, teach the children. Things like drug abuse, or the glorification of alcohol, those must be addressed. Discipline is essential. Even if it’s hard, it’s necessary.

Discipline often requires sacrifice, giving up things you enjoy. It’s like going to the doctor and being told, “You have diabetes, stop consuming sugar.” But because sugar tastes good, you sneak in a spoon here and there. Even if you hide it, your health continues to decline. That sugar is slowly taking your life. It’s the same with youth. When we tell them: “Avoid drugs, reduce alcohol intake,” we are not trying to control them, we are trying to help them live better lives, become better people, and contribute to building the nation in the ways you mentioned.

So, this is an ongoing task, it’s daily work, and it must never stop.

Inés Nyinawumuntu: Thank you, Your Excellency. My name is Inés Nyinawumuntu, I’m a journalist and I’m the deputy head of RBA radios. I would like to ask you just a small, curious question. Your Excellency, if you could spend one day as an ordinary Rwandan citizen.

President Paul Kagame: That, I actually am, I am one of them…

Inés Ghislaine Nyinawumuntu: Yes, but without anyone knowing you were the President, what would you do, where would you go, and what would you hope to learn? Thank you.

President Paul Kagame: Many things. Some things come with age. If it was long ago when I was still young, I would go skydiving, I would go bungee jumping, I would do some of these crazy things. I used to do some of them when I was still young. I wouldn’t drink, but I would have as much fun that you know fall in the normal brackets of fun, almost without limit. In fact, I wish I could be younger. I would do some of the things I missed doing those days of just being there – free, fearless, and just enjoying what nature provides.

Mutuyeyezu Oswald: Murakoze Nyakubahwa Perezida wa Repubulika, nitwa Mutuyeyezu Oswald, kuri micro nkoresha izina rya Oswakim. Yego, ndagira ngo ngendere ku mujyo w’ikibazo Ines abajije cyoroshye ariko mbaze n’ikindi kirebana n’ingengo y’imari. Muramutse, nk’u Rwanda ruramutse ari ikipe y’umupira w’amaguru mwakina kuri kangahe? Icyo ni kimwe. Hanyuma ikindi, mwabwire abanyarwanda kufunga mkanda ariko twagiye kubona tubona ingengo y’imari yiyongereye kurenza ibindi bihe byabanje. Niba nibuka neza yiyongereyeho 21%, abantu benshi baratunguwe, baravuze bati: “Nyamara Igihugu gifite amafaranga kufunga mkanda ntabwo ari ngombwa.” So, Muraza kubikomozaho, murakoze.

Thank you, Your Excellency the President. My name is Mutuyeyezu Oswald, and I am also known as Oswakim. I would like to build on the simple question that Ines asked, and add something related to the national budget. If Rwanda were a football team, what position would you play? That’s one question.

Second, could you explain to Rwandans the call to “tighten our belts” even as the national budget has increased more than in previous years? If I remember correctly, the national budget increased by 21%, which surprised many people. They said, “Actually, if the country has this much money, why should we be tightening our belts?” Could you shed light on that? Thank you.

Perezida Paul Kagame: Najya mu izamu, icyo ni icya mbere cy’umupira, niho najya, numva byakunda.

Icya kabiri cy’ingengo y’imari, uko Igihugu gikura, uko n’iyi si… nahoze mvuga ko nta gihugu kiri island, nta kirwa cy’igihugu kibaho. Buriya actually, kufunga mkanda ni ukuvuga ngo mukoreshe neza bike dufite, ni cyo bivuze. Kubera ko hari byinshi dushaka gukora birenze ibyo dufite, iyo ufunze umukanda rero ni ukuvuga ngo wongera ibyo washoboraga gukora kubera ko warondereje usigira ibitari byabonye…, icyo ni kimwe.

Gitandukanye nibyo bindi rero, budget dushobora gukoresha mbere y’uko unayigena uhereye ku bikenewe urabanza ukareba ariko ibyo ufite ni ibiki? Bingana bite? So, kuzamura budget byatewe na byinshi tubona bigomba gukorwa bikenewe ariko tunabona n’ahantu twagenda tuvana amafaranga adushoboresha kubikora, nicyo iyo mibare ivuze gusa, ni ko iyo 21% yiyongereye.

Yiyongereye, ntabwo ari ukuvuga ko hatakiri kwa kundi ko kurondereza cyangwa gukoresha neza ahubwo twagize amahirwe. Muri byinshi byiyongera buri munsi tugomba gukora, bidusaba n’ubushobozi tudafite twasanze aho dushobora kugabanya handi cyangwa kuzakura amafaranga hagenda hazamuka.

Reka nguhe nk’urugero rumwe, urabizi gufunga umukanda byanahereyeko biba, mwabonye abatubwira ko batakiduhaye imfashanyo twajyaga dufata. Mwarabibonye muri izi ntambara, muri iyi minsi ishize bati: “Twahagaritse ibi, twahagaritse ibi, twahagaritse ibi.” So, ntabwo byaba ngo ubure gutekereza gufunga umukanda.

Ariko, n’ubwo ibyo byabaye twashakishije ibyajya mu mwanya w’ibyo batwambuye cyangwa se turanavuga ngo ariko ubundi byajyaga he? N’ubundi erega bimwe byajyaga aho tutanakeneye, nibigende. Ubwo ariko ni ukuvuga ngo hanyuma tujya no mu gushakisha aho tuvana revenues n’iki. Hari ahantu twagiye dusanga tutahavana amafaranga kandi dukwiye kuba tuyahavana, ubwo akaba arinjiye.

Hanyuma turongera dufata umurongo w’ibikenewe gukorwa turavuga tuti: “ariko hari ibyo tutasimbuka.” Turongera dushaka no muri ba bandi bari barahagaritse imfashanyo bamwe ngira ngo aho bamariye kubona ukuri barabireka biraza. Urumva rero ibyo twari twarafunze kubera ko twabonye ko aba na bo bafunze bageraho bakaza n’iyo bazana igice cyangwa n’iyo byagenda bite biroyongereye. Ntabwo twakomeza ngo dufunge kandi twabonye ko hari icyiyongereye mu bushobozi twabonye, niho bituruka

President Paul Kagame: I would be a goalkeeper. That’s the position I would take on a football team, I think it would suit me well.

As for the budget: As a country grows, and even globally, as I have often said, no country is an island. There is no such thing as an “island country” in economic terms.

Now, the idea of “tightening the belt” means using well the little that we have. It is about managing the scarce resources we have efficiently. Since there are many things we want to do, more than what we currently have, tightening the belt means doing the most of what you have, and eliminate waste, while prioritising your needs. That’s the essence of it.

That’s different from how budgets are planned. When preparing a budget, you don’t just start from what you want to do, you first look at what you have. So, this 21% budget increase was based on the fact that we saw an increase in things that needed to be done, but we also identified new sources of revenue that enabled us to do them. That is where that number comes from.

The increase doesn’t mean that the need to be efficient or to manage well has disappeared. Rather, we had opportunities. There are always new demands, and they require resources we don’t always have. But we found areas where we could either cut or raise funds.

Let me give you an example. One of the reasons we talk about “tightening our belts” is because some of the support we used to receive was cut. You have seen in recent times, with conflicts and other pressures, some donors said: “We are suspending this aid, or stopping that support.” So it only makes sense to think in terms of “tightening our belts”. Still, even after those decisions, we looked for ways to fill the gaps they left, or we asked ourselves: “Was that support always going where it was actually needed?” In some cases, the answer was no, so we let it go.

That forced us to explore new revenue sources. We found areas where we weren’t collecting as we should have, and now we are. Then we reassessed our priorities and said: “There are things we can’t skip.” We also went back to some of those donors who had cut support, and some, after seeing the truth of the situation, reversed their decisions and resumed support. So those items we had cut due to lost aid came back, even if only partially. And when our own capacity increased, even slightly, it made no sense to keep tightening indefinitely. That is the context behind the budget increase.

Mutuyeyezu Oswald: Murakoze, ndagira ngo nsubire inyuma gato, ko mwahisemo kujya mu izamu, ntabwo mwadusobanuriye impamvu mu izamu ari ho mwakina. Murakoze

Thank you. I would like to take you back briefly: You said you would choose to be a goalkeeper, but you didn’t explain why you would play in that position. Could you clarify that for us? Thank you.

Perezida Paul Kagame: Ni ukubera mu mutwe wanjye ni ho numva; ari uburebure, ari amaboko yanjye, kwa kundi nahoze mvuga nti: “nkiri muto nasimbuka mu kirere, harimo gusimbuka, hanyuma hari no… nkeneye n’amaguru yanjye kugira ngo hariya hagati bakina atavunika. So, mu izamu niho nahitamo.

President Paul Kagame: It is because, in my mind, that is where I feel best suited. Whether it’s my height, my arms, like I was saying that: “If I was still young, I would be jumping in the sky, really high,” there is the jumping part, and then I also need my legs to avoid getting injured in the middle of the pitch where the action is intense. So, I would choose the goalpost. That is the position I would prefer.

Aissa Cyiza: Murakoze cyane Nyakubahwa Perezida wa Repubulika, nitwa Aissa Cyiza nkaba ndi umunyamakuru n’umuyobozi wungirije wa Royal FM. Ikibazo cyanjye kiragaruka by’umwihariko ku bagore muri rusange. Turashimira cyane, n’ubwo ndi umunyamakuru ariko njye mu nkuru nanjye nshimire by’umwihariko uruhare mwabigizemo kugira ngo abagore tube dufite ijambo mu gihugu cyacu, kuko iyo urebye mu nzego zose zitandukanye usangamo abagore, mu nzego zifata ibyemezo, yaba ari muri Guverinoma, mu Nteko Ishingamategeko n’ahandi. Ariko ndagira ngo nse nk’ugusubiza inyuma gato cyane mu rugamba rwo kubohora Igihugu. Ubu uyu munsi hashize imyaka 31, bamwe twari batoya, turabona uruhare umugore agira mu iterambere ry’Igihugu kuri ubu mu gihe cyacu tungana gutya, natwe ubwacu tugira, ariko ntabwo tumenya inkuru nyazo z’uruhare abagore bagize mu rugamba rwo kubohora Igihugu, Nyakubahwa Perezida wa Repubulika, ari mwe noneho muzitubwiye, uruhare rw’abagore rwari uruhe muri uru rugamba uyu munsi twizihiza by’umwihariko imyaka 31 u Rwanda rwibohoye?

Thank you very much, Your Excellency the President of the Republic. My name is Aissa Cyiza, journalist and Deputy Director at Royal FM. My question focuses particularly on women. While I am a journalist, I would also like to take a moment personally to express gratitude for your role in ensuring that women have a voice in our country. Today, we see women in all sectors, including in key decision-making positions, whether in government, parliament, or elsewhere.

But I would like to take us back briefly to the time of the liberation struggle. Today marks 31 years since Rwanda’s liberation. Some of us were still young back then. We see the role women play today in national development, women of our generation, including ourselves, but we don’t know the true stories of the role women played during the liberation struggle.

Your Excellency, could you tell us: what was the role of women during that struggle, whose 31st anniversary we celebrate today?

Perezida Paul Kagame: Uruhare rw’abagore rwari runini cyane kandi ngira ngo abenshi baranazwi, ndetse bagiye bahabwa ibihembo ku mugaragaro, ari abari ku rugamba ubwabo ari n’abandi n’iyo baba batari ku rugamba, bakoraga ibikorwa bishyigikira urugamba, bakoraga indi mirimo itandukanye. Hari abakoraga imirimo yo gushaka, bagendaga isi yose bashakisha amikoro dukoresha ku rugamba, kandi ibyo ni ukubishyira mu kandi gaciro, uziko hari n’abagore batanze abana babo, aribo baturutseho cyangwa se bataye abana babo mu mago, bagashakisha aho babareza handi, bakajya ku rugamba. Ibyo byose ni ibintu byanditswe mu mateka bizwi, keretse wenda kuvuga amazina gusa, ariko ni nabenshi kurusha abo umuntu yavuga mu mazina.

Abagore rero bagize uruhare runini ndetse ahenshi ntabwo wabatandukanya n’abagabo. Hari abajyaga ku rugamba n’abagabo, kubavanamo gusa ukabashyira uruhanda nta n’ubwo bitanga ukuri kwabyo. Kenshi babikoranaga n’abagabo, ubundi bagakora indi mirimo itandukanye, ni nk’uko n’ibyo nari mvuze by’uko bagendaga isi yose bashakisha, babaga bari kumwe n’abagabo bagenzi babo cyangwa abahungu bagenzi babo, uruhare rwo rurazwi kandi no mu mateka biranditswe, byanaherewe n’agaciro hari abantu bamwe bagiye bahabwa ako gaciro ku mugaragaro, nta kindi numva nabivugaho.

President Paul Kagame: Women played a very significant role, an enormous one, in fact. And many of them are known. Some have been publicly recognized and awarded for their contributions—whether they were on the battlefield or supporting the struggle in other vital ways.

There were women who were actively fighting, and others, even if they weren’t on the frontline, who supported the cause through different kinds of work. Some took on the responsibility of mobilizing resources around the world, seeking the financial means to support the struggle. That alone deserves great recognition.

There were even women who sent their own children to join the struggle, or who gave up raising their children at home, instead seeking alternative care so that they could personally go and join the liberation effort. These are documented stories, they are well-known and part of our history. The only thing not always known are all their names, but their numbers far exceed what any list could capture.

Women truly played a huge role, and in many cases, you couldn’t separate them from the men. Some went to the battlefield right alongside the men. So to isolate them or place them in a separate category would be inaccurate. Often, they were working together, fighting side by side, or handling other essential tasks such as the global fundraising I mentioned. Whether working with their male colleagues or on their own, their role is undeniable.

History has captured this, and some individuals have even received official recognition for their contributions. I don’t think there is anything more I need to add, the role of women in the liberation struggle is real, significant, and honored.

Aissa Cyiza: Nongeyeho gatoya, biturutse kuri urwo ruhare, kuri ubu ukurikije uko abagore tugira uruhare mu iterambere ry’Igihugu kuri ubu, mu myaka iri imbere nk’u Rwanda wifuza kubona, ubona uruhare rwacu rukwiye kuba uruhe cyane cyane ha handi nawe wakicara ukavuga ngo dore u Rwanda nifuza ni uru  nguru cyangwa se u Rwanda nifuza nko mu myaka 30?

Your Excellency, just a quick follow-up. Based on the significant role women have played, and continue to play today in Rwanda’s development: when you envision the Rwanda you want to see in the next 30 years, what role do you think women should play, especially in that ideal Rwanda that you often speak about: “This is the Rwanda I wish for in the next 30 years”?

Perezida Paul Kagame: Erega njye ntabo nifuza kubitandukanya, njye ndareba Igihugu nk’igihugu, ndareba abantu nk’abantu, njye na mbere hose n’umugore kumuha agaciro mpera kukamuha nk’umuntu not nk’umugore, ni nk’umuntu. Hanyuma ibyo bindi by’uko umugore yakora ibi cyangwa umugabo agakora ibi, ibyo biza nyuma, birisobanura ubwabyo nta n’ubwo njye nagomba no kubijyamo. Naho u Rwanda, nta Rwanda rw’abagore, nta Rwanda rw’abagabo, ni u Rwanda rw’Abanyarwanda.

Abagore n’abagabo bagiramo uruhare bakwiye bitewe n’ubushobozi bafite, hari ibintu bimwe no mu muco cyangwa muri uko duteye nk’abantu hari ibintu usanga bimwe byorohera akazi bumva gakorwa neza, cyangwa korohera umugore kugakora cyangwa se kakorwa neza korohera umugabo kugakora. Hagahora ho ubwo bwuzuzanye rero kurusha kubitandukanya ngo u Rwanda twifuza ni umugore waba ugira atya cyangwa ni umugabo, ibyo birasanzwe biri no mu muco wacu cyangwa se mu majyambere dukora ahuza abantu no guhuza ibihugu. Umugore iteka agomba kuba afite, njye icya mbere icya ngombwa ni umugore kudasigara inyuma kubera ko ari umugore cyangwa se nta n’ubwo akwiye no gutezwa imbere kubera ko ari umugore, akwiye gutezwa imbere kuko ni uburenganzira bwe, ni umuntu, icyo kuba umugore, icyo ntabwo nahindura umugore ngo mugire umugabo cyangwa ngo umugabo mugire umugore, ibyo ni ibintu bisanzwe mu mibereho y’abantu. Ntabwo nibwira rero njye ko nashaka cyane gushyiraho uwo murongo. Nta kintu umugore yakwiye guhezwamo, nta kintu umugabo akwiye guhezwamo, nta kintu umunyarwanda akwiye guhezwamo. Buri wese abifiteho ubushake n’ubushobozi nk’uko imiterere y’igihe cyangwa yabo imeze.

President Paul Kagame: You see, I have never liked separating people that way. I look at the country as a whole, and I look at people as people. Even in the past, when I advocated for giving women their rightful place, I did so from the perspective that a woman is, first and foremost, a person, not because she is a woman. So when we talk about what roles a woman or a man can or should play, those things follow naturally. They are self-explanatory, and I don’t think I need to get into them in detail.

As for Rwanda, there’s no “Rwanda for women” and no “Rwanda for men.” There is only Rwanda for Rwandans. Women and men should both play the roles they are capable of, based on their abilities. In some cases, due to cultural norms or human nature, certain responsibilities might feel more naturally suited to one or the other. But the important thing is complementarity, not separation. So instead of saying, “In the Rwanda we want, women should do this and men should do that,” I would rather say: what matters is building a Rwanda where everyone contributes, where no one is held back or left behind because of their gender.

A woman should never be left behind simply because she is a woman. But neither should she be promoted merely because she is a woman. She should progress because it is her right, as a human being. I don’t need to turn a woman into a man, or vice versa, that is simply life, and how we are made.

So I don’t believe in drawing lines. There should be no space from which a woman is excluded. There should be no space from which a man is excluded. And no Rwandan should be excluded from contributing to their country so long as they have the willingness and the ability to do so, within the context of who they are and the opportunities available.

END